Need advice: move to LV for game development? (English only)

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elvman
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Re: Need advice: move to LV for game development? (English o

#31 Post by elvman » 08 Apr 2018, 22:00

Amnvex wrote:I've never seen a successful game studio where the designers are remote.
Oh, so you have never heard of Electronic Arts, Visceral Games (Dead Space, published by EA), Creative Assembly (Total War), Sucker Punch Productions (Infamous, published by Sony Computer Entertainment), Irrational Games (BioShock Infinite, published by 2K Games), Arkane Studios (Dishonoured, published by Bethesda Softworks), NCsoft, Catalyst Game Labs and SEGA? They all hire a freelancer located in Latvia – Bjorn Hurri.
Amnvex wrote:Yes, remote work works in the short term, but can you keep doing remote work for a decade, working for whatever company?
Bjorn Hurri on his homepage states that he does freelancing for at least 10 years (I don't know when the homepage was last updated).
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Amnvex
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Re: Need advice: move to LV for game development? (English o

#32 Post by Amnvex » 08 Apr 2018, 22:10

elvman wrote:
Amnvex wrote:I've never seen a successful game studio where the designers are remote.
Oh, so you have never heard of Electronic Arts, Visceral Games (Dead Space, published by EA), Creative Assembly (Total War), Sucker Punch Productions (Infamous, published by Sony Computer Entertainment), Irrational Games (BioShock Infinite, published by 2K Games), Arkane Studios (Dishonoured, published by Bethesda Softworks), NCsoft, Catalyst Game Labs and SEGA? They all hire a freelancer located in Latvia – Bjorn Hurri.
Amnvex wrote:Yes, remote work works in the short term, but can you keep doing remote work for a decade, working for whatever company?
Bjorn Hurri on his homepage states that he does freelancing for at least 10 years (I don't know when the homepage was last updated).
Yes, I heard of EA. I know them well, but I don't want to work for an American company (long story short: has to do with renunciation of US citizenship & my stance on U.S. laws). I wasn't aware that they hire people in Latvia. You also have to look at it another way: one example of a successful career is not the standard for the industry. Just because Bjorn Hurri did it, doesn't mean every freelancer can. And as a freelancer, he never has to travel? I work a pretty stable job right now... no need for travel other than... well, local travel for work and I get to be home every day (but also because I'm in school and that means I cannot leave as I have classes every day).

I would *really* like to work for a local company in whatever country I am planning to go to. If that doesn't work out, freelancing is a possibility, after all.

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sam
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Re: Need advice: move to LV for game development? (English o

#33 Post by sam » 09 Apr 2018, 03:01

mmm. it says the Bjorn Hurri location is UK. How i didn't see that coming....

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Amnvex
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Re: Need advice: move to LV for game development? (English o

#34 Post by Amnvex » 09 Apr 2018, 06:01

sam wrote:mmm. it says the Bjorn Hurri location is UK. How i didn't see that coming....

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What significance does that have? Do you think he does this full time? No other job? Just freelancing?

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Re: Need advice: move to LV for game development? (English o

#35 Post by sam » 09 Apr 2018, 15:15

I don't know, how could I? If you like to know something about a person maybe you should just ask them, instead of guessing..for 24 months. Rude.
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elvman
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Re: Need advice: move to LV for game development? (English o

#36 Post by elvman » 09 Apr 2018, 15:22

Amnvex wrote:You also have to look at it another way: one example of a successful career is not the standard for the industry. Just because Bjorn Hurri did it, doesn't mean every freelancer can.
You said before:
Amnvex wrote:I've never seen a successful game studio where the designers are remote.
And I proved you wrong, you have seen successful game studios where the designers are remote. My point was not to tell you that you can do it, I don't know your skills.
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Amnvex
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Re: Need advice: move to LV for game development? (English o

#37 Post by Amnvex » 09 Apr 2018, 20:37

elvman wrote:
Amnvex wrote:You also have to look at it another way: one example of a successful career is not the standard for the industry. Just because Bjorn Hurri did it, doesn't mean every freelancer can.
You said before:
Amnvex wrote:I've never seen a successful game studio where the designers are remote.
And I proved you wrong, you have seen successful game studios where the designers are remote. My point was not to tell you that you can do it, I don't know your skills.
Then there's no point in going to Latvia because it sounds like there is nothing there other than remote work (which indicates the industry doesn't exist if it has to be outsourced--and I know you guys mentioned this earlier). What can you expect then? It explains why so many of my cousins have left for other European countries.

I must say, though, that I am disappointed that Latvia hasn't made a lot of technological progress as Lithuania has. They even write articles about how progressive Lithuania is: https://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/03/ ... owerhouse/

Look what they write:
TheNextWeb.com wrote:Lithuania is small. Yet it seems to have one of the most innovative and tech-savvy populations in Europe whose startup ecosystem has been growing constantly with record activity in 2014 and more than $100 million in investments over the past few years.
You see none of that for Latvia. Not a single article extols Latvian technology or industries. I like the old-school Latvia, but the economy there needs to be refreshed if it is to compete in the world.

Anyway, for me the purpose here is to leave the U.S. and go back where someone can't tell me "go back to where you came from" (I get told this awful line all the time). May as well move to China--I can work in person because I speak the language and there are *many* game companies. I doubt I'll do this, however. I am set on the EU. Either Nordic countries or Western Europe. I will figure it out! At least you helped me make up my mind. Now I know that I will definitely not go to Latvia.

Thanks for the help!

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Re: Need advice: move to LV for game development? (English o

#38 Post by sam » 10 Apr 2018, 01:13

Anyhow..

Nothing's worse than the US with its shitty healthcare and their cancer people.


Nothing's worse than that....
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Re: Need advice: move to LV for game development? (English o

#39 Post by elvman » 10 Apr 2018, 02:58

Amnvex wrote:Then there's no point in going to Latvia because it sounds like there is nothing there other than remote work (which indicates the industry doesn't exist if it has to be outsourced--and I know you guys mentioned this earlier).
At this point, it is hard for me to tell if you are a troll or actually talking seriously, but I will still reply. Nobody said anything about remote work as the only option here in Latvia. I just showed you one example of a successful outsourcer. We have an industry here in Latvia, we just don't brag about the numbers around like others do. We collect the turnover of all the known gamedev companies (around 60 of them) every year and Game Insight (€2.6 million turnover in 2016), Estoty (€1.7 million turnover in 2016) and Brain Games (€1.3 million turnover in 2016) are just a few of them. You could easily apply and work for them if you hate freelancing. But not coming to Latvia is your choice, don't blame us.
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Amnvex
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Re: Need advice: move to LV for game development? (English o

#40 Post by Amnvex » 10 Apr 2018, 06:24

sam wrote:Anyhow..

Nothing's worse than the US with its shitty healthcare and their cancer people.


Nothing's worse than that....
That's right. +1.
elvman wrote:
Amnvex wrote:Then there's no point in going to Latvia because it sounds like there is nothing there other than remote work (which indicates the industry doesn't exist if it has to be outsourced--and I know you guys mentioned this earlier).
At this point, it is hard for me to tell if you are a troll or actually talking seriously, but I will still reply. Nobody said anything about remote work as the only option here in Latvia. I just showed you one example of a successful outsourcer. We have an industry here in Latvia, we just don't brag about the numbers around like others do. We collect the turnover of all the known gamedev companies (around 60 of them) every year and Game Insight (€2.6 million turnover in 2016), Estoty (€1.7 million turnover in 2016) and Brain Games (€1.3 million turnover in 2016) are just a few of them. You could easily apply and work for them if you hate freelancing. But not coming to Latvia is your choice, don't blame us.
No, I wasn't trolling, I was telling the truth of what I thought. The fact that I can find so few companies online that are stationed in Latvia makes me think Latvia has nothing to offer. Not only that, but a lot of what I found was not really serious gameplay. Even though it's home, what good is home if it doesn't have the local need for people like me? I'd be wasting my time. If a company finds me and wants to hire me from there, fine. But I will not put the effort into looking for work specifically there because what I am trying to do is a bit different. I'd like to develop models for a game like this: http://darkageofcamelot.com/ (If you look at their beta screenshots, you can see that it isn't all that advanced-looking... I love old MMOs like this, or even single player games). I know there's a market for it. Moving on...

Although you didn't say it is the only option, it feels that way because there are very few companies that actually deal with anything other than "nonsense" games (games that do not have a continuous development cycle and games that have very little community engagement is how I define "nonsense"). Let's analyse so I can, hopefully, show you what I am talking about:

1. Estoty. Look at their site. All of their games are mobile. They have a huge one-page site--not even a careers section... just a list. They seem more like experiments rather than a serious product.
2. Brain Games Ltd. Good company, it seems, but they are focused on board games, not video games. At least that's what I found from their LinkedIn profile, so that's not who would be interested in hiring someone like me.
3. Game Insight is actually headquartered in Lithuania, but is a Russian company (or was started as a Russian company that was incorporated in Moscow). Their games are also quite silly and seem more like a "ready-to-market" with no potential "expansions" or anything like that.

Now, before you jump on me and say something, I'd like to add that I would not be against developing a mobile game like this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... uest&hl=en

They have a large community and their forums are active.

Okay, so... this is what Latvia offers. As they say in Spanish: no bueno (not good). Or I should say that it's not good enough for my purposes.

Let's compare Latvian market with Swedish market. For one, there's a nice list of companies here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_v ... _of_Sweden

Take one of the first on top. Arrowhead Games. What have they developed? Well, their games--while not many--are quite more "mature", and they're not mobile. Look: http://arrowheadgamestudios.com/#games-2

Another example is Avalanche Studios. They're an independent AAA game developer: http://avalanchestudios.com/games/
If you see here, they make some real good stuff. Nice models, and rather well-known games. Look at their careers. This is something I'd be interested in applying for: http://avalanchestudios.com/careers/P_A ... -qeocggUm/
That'd be an awesome job. In fact, it fits me perfectly once I finish school. If I can get a portfolio, I'd apply to this. Latvian companies don't offer such positions like this from what I've seen from the companies you've shown me, elvman.

Last example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MachineGames
Machine Games has made not much, but some very popular titles.

So, my point is that I was HOPING that Latvia had some serious game development companies that were aiming to capture the market with more AAA-like games even if they are just indie studios. But, again, as I've shown you here, there aren't any companies that seem to be doing this. This is why I said that I've made up my mind to not focus on Latvia anymore.

I hope you understand. You know the industry better than I do, and you've shown me with your knowledge that the companies in Latvia aren't the type that I'd be interested in compared to what is offered in places like Sweden. The whole point--just to clarify--of this topic is to decide if the market is good enough for it by trying to talk to people who are IN the market. With the information at hand, Latvia is a very under-developed market. Therefore, it would not make sense for me to ONLY look for work there and focus all my time on that; I am better off putting my time into other companies in other places. Hope this explains what was on my thoughts.

Sometimes one has to give up his dream of going home and do what's best for his career, eh? Seems to be the ugly truth that I didn't want to face. I could go to Russia, too, but that'd be boring >_> (I lived there with my grandparents, so I know exactly what's going on there).

Oh, and lastly, I'd like to add the issue with freelancing is when companies like Avalanche do this: http://avalanchestudios.com/careers/P_A ... BMDpUoT4k/
If you look, it says: "Local candidates only. This position will require to work in our Stockholm Studio as an independent contractor. This is a temporary role." -- I hope I *never* have this job opportunity. This is exactly what I want to avoid.

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